Sadly, this caliber fell out of popularity and remains to only belong to one true firearm and that would be the much more obtainable … 9mm is often the perfect caliber for shooters to move up once they are comfortable with the 22 LR. La cartouche .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) contient des balles d’un diamètre de 0,452 pouce (11,5 mm), de sorte qu’elle est légèrement plus grande que les balles de 9 mm (0,35 pouce). But, of course, this all begs another important question. The .38 Super Lapua cases I used were truly rimless with the same rim and case wall diameter. The 9mm Luger is also abbreviated 9x19mm, 9mm, 9mmP, or simply 9×19. The 9mm Luger cartridge is flawed. The straight-walled 9mm Automatic produces no gap. Some rounds experienced nosedive feed failures where the round stopped dead on the feed ramp. Featuring reasonable accuracy as well as moderate recoil, the 9 x19mm round proves to be a solid choice for a wide range of shooting purposes. Made worse when trying to run even weaker than regular off the shelf low velocity, reduced recoil, or a combination thereof rounds through those guns. Wonder why your non-US market imported semi-auto shotgun repeatedly stovepipes & requires an extended break in to function as you’d like? Mr. Hoober – thank you for the information, clear and concise. The rim of the new 9mm Automatic will necessarily be smaller than the 9mm Luger, but not by much. Even a taper as small as 0.005-inches produces a two-degree difference of angle with as little as 5 rounds in the magazine. Good write up but how exactly does 2mm equate to “a much shorter case”? The proposed dimensions of the 9mm Automatic (see slideshow) are backward compatible with the 9mm Luger chamber. Some of the finest handguns in the world are chambered for the 9mm Luger cartridge. The loaded rounds had 0.011- and 0.012-inches taper, respectively, in Federal 9mm Luger brass. You can use them interchangeably. Le 9 × 19 mm Parabellum est un calibre de cartouche destinée aux pistolets semi-automatiques. The prototype 9mm Automatic was test fired in a variety of 9mm pistols: Caspian 1911, CZ-75 B, Glock 19, Kel-Tec P-11, Para Ordnance P18-9 and a Walther P99. I bought the kit, just in case, but never needed it so far in many tens of thousands of reloaded cartridges. I conducted extensive tests with a prototype cartridge that demonstrate clear benefits of creating a new 9mm cartridge with straight walls. Feed angles with different rim widths. It is by far the most practical solution to overcome the flaw of the tapered 9mm Luger design. Frank Barnes (2006) notes that it is the most widely used cartridge in the United States. Rotating the case to a different part of the rim eventually produced contact. et comme je ne connais absolument rien au rechargement, je ne sais vraiment pas quel marque prendre ? As one would predict from the previous results, the 9mm Automatic had the highest feed angles. The 9mm Luger .38 Special Rounds. But when the cartridges are placed along side their peers, the shape of the 9mm Luger's taper becomes obvious by producing a gap between the rounds at the case neck. Most shooters don’t consider the 9mm Luger a “high powered” cartridge. I selected cases with a rim of .0015-, .0025-, .006- and .020-inches wider than the case body. As the round is pushed forward, a rim wider than the case wall will drag on the underlying cartridge once it moves past the extractor groove. The prototype cartridge was made by trimming the Lapua cases to 9mm Luger length of up to 0.754 inches in length. What SAAMI & CIP are, which is why off the shelf ammo here is weak compared to the rest of the world’s. Many affordable handguns are chambered in 9mm as well. The effect of cartridge taper becomes apparent when rounds are loaded in a magazine. Bullets included round nose, 9mm hollow point and .357 SIG designs. Shouldn’t it be a little shorter,I mean it’s 2mm? We began clearing the location and papa was lying face up in nothing but his white-e-tieties. lbf. Big bore semiauto or a lever gun? All Shooting Times subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. This also shows the dramatic improvement in feed angle offered by the 9mm Automatic. Not all 9mm Luger ammunition has the same amount of taper. The test gun was a custom-built Caspian single column 1911 pistol with a ramped 9mm Luger barrel. The feed angle with hollow point bullets. Even the 9mm Automatic (.38 Super Lapua) cases did not have rims perfectly concentric with the case body, and some rim drag could be felt by this method. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. They claim a 93 gr Hornady + 7.2 gr AA#7 for 1338 fps at 26400 cup. Yes 9mm & 9mm luger are the same. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The DB9 magazine was fully loaded with six rounds. 1500 – 2500 or more psi less in this case, results in a quite sizable reduction in carrier &/or slide velocity. ©2021 Outdoor Sportsman Group. This is why the “9mm Luger” name was established, although it’s often now shortened to “9mm”. The camera recorded cartridge behavior as it was stripped from the magazine. Brand new Remington 9mm Luger brass averaged 0.075-inches taper. Some have cast that off, saying it should eat whatever they give it. Depending on the cartridge, you can still save money by handloading, and even though... Red-dot sights may be just what the doctor ordered for lever-action fans of “a certain age.”. Cartridge feed angle with different tapers measured from high-speed video. The 9×19mm Parabellum, 9mm Parabellum, or 9mm Luger is a firearms cartridge that was designed by Georg Luger and introduced in 1902 by the German weapons manufacturer Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken (DWM) (German Weapons and Munitions Factory) for its Luger semi-automatic pistol. peut ton prendre les bas tarifs ? You could smell the gunpowder. It was developed by a German named Georg Luger in 1902 and was manufactured for the Luger semi-auto by DWM or Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken. An Austrian named Georg Luger designed the modern world’s most popular cartridge in 1901. I tested two different flat nose bullets with three different cases for feeding reliability. There is some debate about this, technically the 9mm should head space on the case mouth, but I know when the taper is not right it will not operate properly. Well I put some regular 9mm’s in the mag and it seemed the gun did not like them too very much. The feed angles correlated with their feeding reliability. Il s'agit de la cartouche pour arme de poing militaire la plus populaire et la plus utilisée. Reply. Feed angle is defined as the lowest angle the cartridge achieves prior to hitting the feed ramp. Three or six full 10-round magazines were run for each taper (9mm Automatic N=60; 0.0037 N=30; 0.005 N=60; 0.0075 N=60; 0.0133 N=30). The prototype Lapua cases had a 0.381-inch rim and functioned in all pistols tested. ISS Prop House gives us the rundown on the guns used in Enemy at the Gate. When loaded in straight-walled cases, the wide-nosed .357 SIG bullet has a significant margin of clearance and feeds 100% of the time. A straight-walled rimless 9mm cartridge provides a clear benefit for feeding reliability in single column pistols. Alleged Shooter of 8-Year-Old Atlanta Girl Secoriea Turner Has Been Charged With Murder [VIDEO], Things That Don’t Suck: Trader Keith’s Rifle Strap, Culling Belt and Cartridge Slide, How I Ended My Search for the Perfect Everyday Carry Pistol, Improve Your Shooting: 50-Round Skill Sustainment Course of Fire. The plotted values are the cartridge angle relative to the magazine feed lips. If you’re seeking tremendous energy, the.375 Magnum, 10mm Auto, and.45 ACP (to name a few) are usually the better choice. That being said, various shooters believe that .38 Super outperform 9mm Luger in several regards like power, velocity and so … “The 9mm Luger round actually has a slight taper… causing feeding problems … single-stack”. Let’s Look At 380 ACP vs 9mm Luger. All Rights Reserved. The 9mm Luger brass, with its lower feed angle, had problems feeding both flat nose bullets. The 9mm Automatic has a six-degree higher cartridge angle. However, they have slight rims that measure about 0.006-inches wider than the case body. It can be referred to as the “9mm Parabellum”. Good article! They were around from 1985 to 1999 in 9mm and 45acp. Per SAAMI specifications, the standard pressure for 9x19mm is 35,000 psi, while 9mm +P measures 38,500 psi. It is a potent cartridge for its size and offers good performance with well-designed bullets. Keep in mind that in some instances there was likely no rim drag for these cases because of the reason mentioned above. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The feed angle with the two different bullets was very similar, so the lines are the average of the two bullets. Accurate Arms has data for .30 Luger under a SAAMI maximum of 28,000 cup. He made its bullet 9.01 millimeters in diameter, and its case 19.15 millimeters long. The push on the upper part of the rim and drag on the lower part of the rim combined with a nosedive gap encourages the cartridge to nosedive. Measurements taken from 15 different varieties of 9mm Luger ammunition. Il est parfois nommé 9 mm Para ou encore 9 mm Luger, car mis au point par Georg Luger pour son fameux Luger P08. There are a lot of terms, but knowing which terms apply to which cartridges will make you a more confident and informed gun owner, and will also enhance your enjoyment of all shooting sports! I tested several of these case designs trimmed to 9mm Luger length to assess the effect of rim width on feed angle. (SAAMI standards are 35,000 psi.) The difference in the shape of the case is not obvious, because the 9mm Luger's taper is slight. The rim of the upper round is normally positioned in the extractor groove of the underlying round when they are in the magazine. Any info on why Luger used a tapered case? Mag. The answer is yes! But more important was their feeding reliability. September 7, 2018 at 10:44 pm I wish Marlin would start making the camp carbine again. But in this comparison, the 9mm Luger clearly has higher energy ratings. The slide and barrel of the DB9 have been removed and the top cartridge in a fully loaded magazine has been positioned at the full nosedive angle. The 9mm bullets (projectiles) come in a variety of styles for specific purposes. My tests document a dramatic improvement in cartridge feed angle, and restored feeding reliability with flat nose bullets. Since then, the 9mm Luger - also known as the 9mm Parabellum, 9X19, 9mm NATO or just the 9mm - has become one of the most popular cartridges on the planet. Table des matières 1 Prod… This brings us to the difference between 9mm NATO and 9mm Luger. Luger pistols used a 8 round single stack magazine. The 0.006-inch rim, with its intermediate feed angles, had problems only with the wide-nosed Speer .357 SIG GDHP. A larger gap means greater potential nosedive. You have entered an incorrect email address! I pay between $9-$15.00 pr box. Comparison of Popular 380 & 9mm Handguns. A single McCormick .38 Super 10-round magazine was used for these tests. Actual rim width varies somewhat in all examples. The extractor groove waist dimension must also be reduced to maintain the same extractor engagement. I had no way to guarantee a consistent amount of rim drag during feeding. Luger never anticipated a single-stack? 9mm +P ammo has 10% more pressure than a standard 9x19mm round. great weapons . This figure shows a prototype 9mm Automatic cartridge along with a 9mm Luger cartridge. This occurs because the nosedive gap gets bigger as more rounds are loaded in the magazine regardless of taper. Taper is defined as case head diameter minus case neck diameter. The 9mm Parabellum headspaces on the taper because it is a ‘rimless‘ case. Developing fast 9mm handloads is not for beginners, but it can be done safely if attention is... Give a Gift   The Winchester JHP produced feeding problems only in the 9mm Luger brass. Feeding reliability was also tested with a Diamondback DB9. Side view of nosedive angle for 9mm Luger and 9mm Automatic ammunition in a Diamondback DB9. 481 Member. Development and History of the 9mm Luger vs. 9x19mm Rounds. The 9mm Luger had the lowest feed angles, and the 0.006-inch rim brass had intermediate feed angles. Lee sells bulge busting dies to take care of the ‘perfection smile’ on brass. Les deux cartouches… The taper on one side of a 9mm Luger cartridge is about one-half a degree. Unleash some of the most successful bullets on the market with smooth feeding and reliable 9mm Luger caliber. Presumably, when the magazine spring is near full compression, the pressure can affect the feed angle of tapered cartridges. In-Depth Comparison. Un 9mm est généralement moins cher, a moins de recul et une vitesse supérieure à un .45 ACP. To make a comparison, a 9mm NATO round would be like a 9mm +P round in terms of pressure. Feeding reliability with two hollow point bullets in the 1911 pistol. SAAMI 9mm Luger specifications show a taper of 0.010-inches (head to case neck; 0.014-inches for rim to case mouth). This causes the bullet nose to hit low on the feed ramp and at a more perpendicular angle. A compact 9mm Luger handgun is easily controlled with practice. A straight-walled case dramatically improves cartridge feed angle and feeding reliability. 9mm Largo, 9mm Luger, 9x23mm Winchester, 9x23mm Steyr. Nosedive occurs when the nose of the cartridge cams downward while being pushed forward out of the magazine during feeding. Comparaison .45 ACP vs 9mm. My partner and I got to the apartment and the door was open. 9mm Auto vs. 9mm Luger - Which is Better? I have not seen anything that would say do not use 9mm Hydra-Shok in a p38. By all accounts, 9mm Luger is the world’s most popular and widely used cartridge for pistols and submachine guns. He could have also chosen to head space on the case mouth like .45ACP, which is also ‘rimless‘. “However, the authorities of SAAMI and CIP being what they are”. The least amount of taper (0.0037) showed a feed angle similar to the 9mm Automatic. A .38 Super magazine positions the cartridge farther from the feed ramp than a 9mm Luger magazine. Support GY6vids over at http://www.patreon.com/GY6-Hello GY6nation, today we have a very unique ballistics test. Loads with 9mm Luger brass with the Winchester JHP bullet averaged 0.0068-inches taper and for the Speer .357 SIG GDHP bullet 0.0065-inches taper. These tests examined cartridge taper and rim width. One hundred and eighty rounds were video recorded for this comparison (three full 10-round magazines (N=30) each for six conditions: three types of brass X two bullets). It is smaller than its two closest competitors, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, which allows for more rounds to be carried in similarly-sized magazines. The cases were Remington 9mm Luger (tapered), Starline .38 Super Comp (0.006-inch rim) and the prototype 9mm Automatic. The 0.0075-inch tapered cases show a difference in feed angle of up to six degrees (round 6) from the 9mm Automatic. C'est à ce jour le calibre d'arme de poing le plus largement répandu au monde, notamment comme munition d'arme de poing standard de l'OTAN. Worse, if it doesn’t achieve the minimum, FTE city. The rims were not necessarily concentric with the case body. But as many shooters know, flat nose bullets can sometimes produce feeding malfunctions in guns that run round nose bullets reliably. Re: difference 9mm et 9mm Luger Jeppesen le Lun 17 Déc - 22:18. Only three dimensions need to be modified from the 9mm Luger: the case wall, rim and extractor groove. Same plotting method as previous figure. Why Does 9mm Have Multiple Names? Therefore, in some instances with these cases there would be rim drag on the underlying round and sometimes not. Thus, a true rimless case offers the best feed angle. SAAMI officially designated the name “9mm Luger” as the official designation ammo. The bullet nose catches on a ledge in the frame below the barrel's feed ramp. The larger the nosedive gap, the greater the nosedive and the lower the feed angle. With the abundance of these pistols produced today, especially for the self-defense market, maximizing reliability is a compelling argument for its creation. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/difference-between-9mm-and-9mm-luger il y a un choix pas trop mal en ogive, par exemple, et les prix si différent ? A prototype straight-walled cartridge was made from .38 Super Lapua cases, which are rimless versions of the .38 Super. We ping steel with a .300 WinMag at over a mile. That is, if the cases with minimal rims (.0015-.0025 inches) were slid along each other, sometimes the rim extended past the case wall diameter and would drag on the other case's side wall, and sometimes it did not. 9mm, was originally designed by Georg Luger in 1901, two years after the .38 Special came out, to be a rimless semi-auto … The 9mm Luger round is one of the most popular centerfire pistol cartridges in America today. The values are the cartridge angle relative to the magazine feed lips. But that is in a 6 inch barrel. These rounds are not positioned as they would be in most magazines, but it illustrates how the 9mm Luger's taper contributes to cartridge angle. The last table shows the proposed dimensions and actual measurements from 9mm Luger ammunition for comparison. The important feature in the figure is the large difference in feed angle between most of the tapered cartridges and the straight-walled 9mm Automatic when there are four rounds and more in the magazine. Ever since 9mm Luger and .45 ACP were introduced at the beginning of the 20th century to fill the need for cartridges suitable for semi-automatic handguns the two calibers have been at odds. Lines show the average of three or six runs. The profile of the Federal round was very similar to the handloaded cartridges, and was used as an example of factory ammunition. Within any given box of ammunition the amount of taper was relatively consistent. Photo Credit: Wikimedia Commons. Is 9mm the same as 9mm Luger? The latter, a fault exhibited by more than a few “reviewers”. This is an example of another single column pistol where the straight-walled 9mm Automatic provides a higher cartridge angle, which dramatically reduces nosedive and produces an empirical improvement in feeding reliability. re: 9 mm para ou 9 mm luger par chuckchris le Jeu 23 Fév 2017 - 16:56 je suis allé sur le site armurerie gilles, qui je pense a de bon tarif. Early Glocks create some amazingly odd-looking range pickups. Comment. There was up to an eight-degree difference in feed angle (round 5) between the rimless 9mm Automatic and the cartridge with the widest rim (0.020). 9mm vs .40 Caliber: Reasons I Don’t Carry a .40 Smith and Wesson. Attempts to change some aspect of the magazine or the follower produce limited results. The Diamondback magazine had the manufacturer's "improved" follower designed to reduce nosedive. The Speer .357 SIG GDHP produced repeated feed failures with both the 9mm Luger and 0.006 inch rim brass. Also, some shooters (including the author) use .38 Super magazines in their 9mm Luger 1911 pistols. In this article we’ll take a look at their differing characteristics and why you might want to choose one or the other. 9mm Luger vs. 9mm NATO. The 1911 magazine was fully loaded with 10 rounds. 9mm and 9mm Luger are the same. A second group of fired 9mm Automatic cases was partially sized until they had a 0.005-inch taper. The rim of the new 9mm Automatic will necessarily be smaller than the 9mm Luger, but not by much. With a traditional copper jacket, 9mm Luger Handgun Ammunition reduces the amount of fouling in your barrel. Legendary gunmaker, George Luger, introduced the 9mm round after the .38 Special, way back in 1902. That’s why, watered down ammo. Same is true of any other SAMMI or CIP approved round. There were 5 gunshots to his chest. It most certainly is not, the issue is operator ignorance. One hundred and twenty rounds (0.0015 N=30 Hornady 9mm Steyr; 0.0025 N=30 Hornady 9mm Steyr; 0.006 N=30 Starline .38 Super Comp; 0.020 N=30 Starline .38 Super +P) were video recorded and analyzed for feed angle and compared to the 9mm Automatic data. en étui ogive amorce ? The 9×19 taper prevents using the bulge-bust trick of sending the case up through an empty crimp die. Pressure! La .38 Special est une cartouche cerclée à percussion centrale de Smith & Wesson. The nosedive gap appears with straight-walled cartridges, but the 9mm's taper can increase the gap by about one degree more than a straight-walled cartridge for every round added to the magazine (see slideshow). It has been flawed since its development around 1902 by Georg Luger for his famous Luger pistol. Not really. Sig Sauer 9mm versus 380. IME OAL is also important, no longer than .750 gave me best results. Cases were loaded with the Remington 115 grain bullet as described above. But when the cartridges are placed along side their peers, the shape of the 9mm Luger's taper becomes obvious by producing a gap between the rounds at the case neck. CLICK FOR BEST PRICE. The 9mm Luger has become especially popular for small, compact carry guns intended for self-defense. Rim diameters of 9mm Luger ammunition in the author's possession ranged from 0.387 to 0.390 inches, so the proposed 0.380 rim diameter is within 0.007 to 0.010 inches and should not require extractor adjustment except in exceptional cases. Both bullet designs fail to feed the top round from a fully loaded 6-round magazine. All the names are correct. 1996 responded to a domestic violence call shots fired. You’ve got to wonder why one of the oldest handgun ammunition is also the most popular today in America. I wonder about the trajectories of the different rounds, which shoots flatest for longest? Le Luger de 9 mm, également connu sous le nom de Parabellum 9X19 mm, a été conçu par George Luger. © COPYRIGHT 2020, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Rim diameters of 9mm Luger ammunition in the author's possession ranged from 0.387 to 0.390 inches, so the proposed 0.380 rim diameter is within 0.007 to 0.010 inches and should not require extractor adjustment except in exceptional cases. The Speer .357 SIG GDHP bullet has an especially wide nose and was selected for that reason because wider bullets hit lower on the feed ramp, which can increase the chance of a feeding malfunction. A 9mm Luger round (left) with a Speer .357 SIG GDHP shows the edge of the bullet nose below where the bottom of the barrel's feed ramp would sit. Functionally, it’s synonymous…. The 9mm can be used in rifle form for training and is still a blast to shoot.